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Children ‘born here’ not of VI parents must be embraced- Hon Walwyn

- calls on 3rd HoA to address & resolve issue
At the launch of the NDP’s At-Large candidates for the upcoming national elections of the Virgin Islands (VI) emotions ran high in support for a call made by candidate Honourable Myron V. Walwyn who spoke of a conversation about ‘A Family’ as he challenged the Third House of Assembly to seriously consider the boiling issue of children ‘Born here’ despite the status of their parents. Photo: VINO
The National Democratic Party (NDP) Territorial At-Large candidates are, from left: Dr The Honourable D. Orlando Smith, Minister for Health and Social Development Honourable Ronnie W. Skelton, Minister for Education and Culture Honourable Myron V. Walwyn and Honourable Archibald C. Christian. Photo: VINO
The National Democratic Party (NDP) Territorial At-Large candidates are, from left: Dr The Honourable D. Orlando Smith, Minister for Health and Social Development Honourable Ronnie W. Skelton, Minister for Education and Culture Honourable Myron V. Walwyn and Honourable Archibald C. Christian. Photo: VINO
This call was made in the open air atmosphere last night, May 16, 2015 before a large crowd gathered to hear what the At Large candidates on the NDP slate had to say ahead of General Election. Photo: VINO
This call was made in the open air atmosphere last night, May 16, 2015 before a large crowd gathered to hear what the At Large candidates on the NDP slate had to say ahead of General Election. Photo: VINO
Sections of the audience at the NDP rally held last night May 16, 2015. Photo: VINO
Sections of the audience at the NDP rally held last night May 16, 2015. Photo: VINO
Sections of the audience at the NDP rally held last night May 16, 2015. Photo: VINO
Sections of the audience at the NDP rally held last night May 16, 2015. Photo: VINO
ROAD TOWN, Tortola, VI – At the launch of the National Democratic Party (NDP) At-Large candidates for the national elections of the Virgin Islands (VI) set for June 8, 2015, emotions ran high in support of a call made by Honourable Myron V. Walwyn for the Third House of Assembly to seriously consider the boiling issue of children ‘born here’ of parents not from the Virgin Islands.

“I am asking all of us who would be a part of the Third House of Assembly to summon the courage from within for us to finally address and resolve this matter in the best interest of this country,” Hon Walwyn challenged.

This call was made in the open air atmosphere last night May 16, 2015 before a large crowd of persons gathered at the Sir Olva Georges Plaza to hear what the At Large candidates on the NDP slate had to say ahead of the national elections.

While noting that “family conversations” can get a bit uneasy, “and this might just be one of those moments,” he said that in order for the VI to be a great country everyone has to feel that they are a part of the VI society.

“Nothing gives a Virgin Islander more pride these days than to hear the words of our territorial song and recall the struggles and endurance of our people. But what does that sound mean to a child that’s born here that has to get time at immigration despite being born right here, up the road at Peebles hospital?” asked Hon Walwyn.

He put the question out asking if the child, despite being ‘born here’, feels the same sense of pride hearing the words of the territorial song. “Are they planning to be the best student they can be to make this country proud or are they feeling as though they are being pushed to the outskirts of a country that they too would like to call home?

“Virgin Islands family we must find a way to address this matter that plagues the consciousness of generations of Virgin Islanders. We want to build a nation where all our people feel wanted and needed and where they understand the same types of responsibility required from all citizens,” he said, adding that’s what has made the USA the great country that it is today.

Excluding ‘members’ from society could affect development

The NDP candidate also noted that this elections is not about whether the voters of the Virgin Islands like him, the NDP or either the VIP but rather this elections is about choosing a path for the Virgin Islands that would have effects on the country today “and the effects it would have on the lives and opportunities for any five year old child in the Virgin Islands today and perhaps even their children,” said Hon Walwyn.

He said in order for the VI to be truly shaped it’s important to continue to work on the existing socio economic challenges. “We realise that when some members of our society feel excluded from the majority it can affect significant issues for the development of our society on the whole,” he said.

Hon Walwyn made similar call before

It was in July 1, 2013 that Hon Walwyn had also made the call for all children born in the Virgin Islands to automatically be made citizens of the territory.

The remarks had come amidst inaugural observations for Territory Day held at the Noel Lloyd Positive Action Movement Park.

According to Hon Walwyn at the time, “If a child is born on United States soil, that child immediately becomes an American citizen, with all the rights thereto appertaining. I dare say that this should be the case in every part of the world, including the Virgin Islands.” The Minister’s proposal had received resounding applause from the audience.

The Education Minister had also questioned the purpose of the British Nationality Act, calling it more divisive than unifying in this age and suggested that it be removed.

“In these times we cannot continue on the path of division rather we must unite for the development of one Virgin Islands. That act may be useful in other parts of the British Empire, but it remains an issue of bitterness in our progress to build one Virgin Islands. I think it is time for that act to become a thing of the Virgin Islands past.”

Meanwhile, the other persons on the NDP list of Territorial At-Large candidates are Minister for Health and Social Development Honourable Ronnie W. Skelton and At-Large representative without a portfolio Honourable Archibald C. Christian.

57 Responses to “Children ‘born here’ not of VI parents must be embraced- Hon Walwyn”

  • OF Course (17/05/2015, 09:30) Like (43) Dislike (9) Reply
    we embrace them during elections to get votes and the subject turns into a cold case for the next four years. Get a new gimmick.
    • Observer (19/05/2015, 07:25) Like (2) Dislike (0) Reply
      Walwyn blue suit is of very poor that from Red Cross?
  • fish (17/05/2015, 09:36) Like (39) Dislike (15) Reply
    This dude come back with this rubbish again and he very well knows it’s the UK law. Why the hell he does not stop fooling the people? Trying to get cheap political mileage…he sick and desperate to return to power…he need to stop he making his own government look bad
    • @Fish (17/05/2015, 16:55) Like (14) Dislike (3) Reply
      You are absolutely correct. Walwyn is a lawyer and he should know better. That is an issue that is dealt with by the UK, and it is a very complex one. There are some things which our local politicians can reasonably accomplish; and some things that are not that easily achieved.
    • Youth (17/05/2015, 21:30) Like (4) Dislike (6) Reply
      Laws can be broken.
  • stop playing games with people minds (17/05/2015, 09:39) Like (35) Dislike (17) Reply
    These people know our laws are laws that came from the mother land England. There is nothing we can do at this time but they still make noise like empty barrels and they know better. Stop trying to drum up political support by beating a dead drum! Stop trying to fool the people! These people are being told of the consequences when they arrive here but they still go ahead and get pregnant. Are they hard of hearing or willful?
    • first born (17/05/2015, 10:15) Like (18) Dislike (5) Reply
      So these "people" shouldn't have relations and multiply???
    • vi (18/05/2015, 09:48) Like (0) Dislike (0) Reply
      our laws did not come from the mother land, our laws came from our land by our law makers, its just that some laws of the mother land also govern us, walwyn knows what he talking about, its not playing with people minds, he made that same statement a few years ago, what i noticed is that the ministers who has parents from outside the bvi always make the call for this to happen, , it does not need a rocket scientist to figure this out, it is simple, my god, we all know what the BNA says and we cant change that, we knows that, the bvi controls belongers status, this has nothing do do with the uk, give the kids belongers status who born hereafter that they will be naturalized, simple, thats why walwyn said in 2013 we must stop hiding behind the BNA, he was talking to his own coleuges
      • Comment (21/05/2015, 16:18) Like (1) Dislike (0) Reply
        The question is how many people on the Island are from the BVI and how many are not? Now...if we give Non-BVIslanders' children rights, these children would take over our government and country because 'today' their parents outnumber the local population. In the near future there would be civil unrest because these immigrants children would rule with an agenda and the local child will fight back. Our beautiful country would fall.
        We are in great need of fixing this issue before it gets out of control. Workers are not rotated in and out of the country as they should be to avoid these immigration matters and our children will suffer one day for your lack of concern for your country’s resources. This is not the UK or USA our resources are few and cannot be shared by the world and their children. If we continue in this direction our country will fall because our pie is small ‘too small for the world to share’ although it appeals to the world because it is bought and sold with US Currency…’which makes it much more appealing to the masses’.
  • Nice (17/05/2015, 09:41) Like (27) Dislike (32) Reply
    Good point Walwyn.we really need those laws remove and I know onces you are reelected you will fight that battle because you have being fighting it a while now just don't give up .NDP all the way .
    • Sunshine (17/05/2015, 15:28) Like (13) Dislike (1) Reply
      @Nice, when will you wake up? Please be advised that when it comes to citizenship no Overseas Territory Government can amend/change the British Nationality Act. Stop drinking those people sugar water for it has no flavor!
  • NDP heckler (17/05/2015, 09:44) Like (30) Dislike (19) Reply
    He and his government had 4 years to correct this problem and what they did? Walked off the job in 3 and a half years and now here asking for 4 more years to fix it. Ayo had ayo chance and ayo fail, LET SOMEBODY ELSE GET A CHANCE TO TACKLE THE PROBLEM>>>>>THE NDP WALKED OFF THE JOB!
    • Hmm (17/05/2015, 13:11) Like (3) Dislike (5) Reply
      And if the other Government WALK OFF THE JOB we are going to keep their bags packed. Very disrespectful. The things they are speaking about now they had at least 6 more months to tackle them and could have spread it further to 2016 to finish them. They think we eat our school fees and as a matter of fact we are moo moos because the education system back then produced such.
    • wize up (17/05/2015, 13:43) Like (8) Dislike (4) Reply
      VIP; had some 40 years in office and did nothing: this not born here jive only applies to all black persond: white folk walks up in this place and the born here syndrome don't come up(the whites are seen as cash-cows so we dear not offend them)....
      • facts (17/05/2015, 15:11) Like (11) Dislike (3) Reply
        Every major move towards progress has been made by the VIP. Including the new hospital and pier, only difference is that the VIP's plan would not have been above budget. The VIP cares about real progress for the long term. The NDP is trying to use visual, short term projects to fool people. Both the hospital and pier are surrounded in controversy and payment and functionality but because they were built is the only reason y'all want them back in
      • oooo really (18/05/2015, 07:42) Like (2) Dislike (1) Reply
        The white people who do not have this issue are either of British descent hence it does not apply or they are American and could careless as their children have their rights. I guess for the rest of us whose children were born in the US they receive their rights by descent. We can not change laws that have been passed down so either sick it up or leave. If this law was such an issue during their long and productive 3 1/2 years on the people's job they would have used some of OUR money they spent GLOBE throtting to make their way to England and lobby this cause. MVW we see you so go sit down from utter nonsense.
  • ooooo (17/05/2015, 09:48) Like (33) Dislike (7) Reply
    he went to the UK several times on various joyrides why he didn't tackle the problem while he was up there? he also said that doc had the englishman eating from the palm of his hands so why he didn't feed him with the problem?
  • joe (17/05/2015, 09:57) Like (10) Dislike (3) Reply
    he should of been speaking about constitutional reform instead,laws need to be updated if the country is to move ahead.
  • egg face (17/05/2015, 10:10) Like (3) Dislike (6) Reply
    Myron that is an ugly jacket I have seen u in better
  • Fed Up (17/05/2015, 10:24) Like (43) Dislike (8) Reply

    The only person feeling and spreading bitterness about the British Nationality Act is Myron. Every country have laws that we all must abide by. Stop making the public feel that the BVI can resend that Act and stop comparing the BVI to the USA. The USA can absorb the number of immigrants moving there, here in the BVI we are already over populated and bursting at the seams. The United Kingdom is not the only country to have such an law, many other countries do, Italy for example have a similar law.

    At least the BVI allows expatriates to give birth in the Territory unlike some of our fellow British Territories like Cayman Islands and Bermuda to name a few. Every child born in the British Virgin Islands to expatriates eventually get their full citizenship at the appropriate time as set out in the law. Those who don't like it to need to give birth elsewhere.

    The promotion of disdain against the British Nationality Act need to stop. Instead the leaders of this Territory should be educating the public about the Act so that they can be aware of the necessary steps that are to be taken to ensure that their children obtain their documents in a timely manner.

  • Hmm (17/05/2015, 10:36) Like (10) Dislike (7) Reply
  • Empty head (17/05/2015, 11:39) Like (13) Dislike (5) Reply
    No vision just fancy talk shut it mw
  • childrenwithoutidentity (17/05/2015, 11:49) Like (9) Dislike (6) Reply
    I agree with Myron that it is about time that this law and its relevance to the Bvi be addressed however I cannot help but think that the timing and forum suggests that it is just another political ploy. Vernon Malone suggested the same in the 2011 Campaign but that was seen as a desperate political ploy to pander to the voters with expatriate backgrounds. It did not work then, doubt seriously that it will work now. Vernon had 4 years, Myron had 3 1/2 years to petition and lobby England to make the amendments and neither did. Action does speak louder than words.

    For those who say that this is a UK Law and there is nothing that can be done they are not aware of the history of how Lawmakers had to negotiate with UK Officials to enact our constitution via a UK Statutory instrument. The last time there was an amendment was in the 2007 when our Legislative Council was changed to the House of Assembly and the Chief Minister was now to be known as the Premier and a Bill of rights was added. Provision 30 states clearly that the Legislature should enact laws that protect our children from neglect. The UK act can be seen as neglectful of children. If the Constitution can be amended not once but 4 times why can the UK Nationality Act as it applies to us?

    I do not believe that either party has the will to lobby England for changes to this law. One or two might speak out but it is not the will of the majority of either Party as they are some interest groups who financially support these parties who like the law as it is. That is the reality. If the law's intention was to prevent persons from coming to the UK/Overseas Territories to have children just to get a passport then the law can be amended to allow passports to be issued for children who are born here from expatriate parents who have been here for 2-3 years minimum. Compromise can be met in that regard.

    • pancho (17/05/2015, 13:04) Like (7) Dislike (3) Reply
      Those expat born here children are not neglected. They are their parents responsibility. Like you said it is political pandering and make for getting applause during the talking season. Myron and ALL politicians, aspiring politicians need to tackle other societal problems facing the BVI: Immigration, Labour, Environment, Housing, Garbage collection n disposal, Sewerage collection n disposal, Crime (30) unsolved murders in the last 23 years and unprecedented entitlements growth. Talk issues and seek solutions or offer plans to address same.
      • childrenwithoutidentity (17/05/2015, 15:22) Like (2) Dislike (7) Reply
        Children are their parents responsibility but for any child to be raised to be a respectable and positive contributor to society, the children must be our responsibility. Guess what. I bet if one of these Children became a nobel laureate, an Olympic Medalist, an Academy award winner you will see how BVI (including yourself) run to embrace that child as their own. People like you are myopic and cannot see further than their front door. You mention immigration but this is a immigration issue.

        The Children did not make that choice so why should they be ostracized for it? What if the Countries where the parents from enact laws that prevent children born outside of their shores from becoming Nationals until 18. So we will have a child with no known Nationality, no passport, no identity. How heartless.

        The prosperous BVI today was built with the help of immigrants and we must embrace it, not deny it. This is a battle started by those who use the indigenous title and they clearly do not want others to encroach on their beloved BVI. Well hello...They have already done that and for the most part for the betterment of the Country. Give the Children their rights.
  • resident (17/05/2015, 12:09) Like (5) Dislike (0) Reply
    If you read the article you would not make such of a statement because he Hon minister mention England is responsible for the law that needs to be remove in this civilize time
  • JOKERS WE GONA VOTE VIP ALL THE WAY WITH VENGEANCE (17/05/2015, 12:12) Like (3) Dislike (3) Reply
  • Size of country (17/05/2015, 12:20) Like (5) Dislike (5) Reply
    Myron those are rules laid down by the UK. If you feel you so big and bad go to the palace and voice your dissident wishes. We however understand sovereignty, obey laws and since being under British rule has always work for us we want to continue that. BVI land mass is very small. You see how we can barely get electricity to stay on. Everyone wants a better life no argument with that but choose some where that can comfortably accommodate huge migration, like Canada. Even Jamaica up the road or Trinidad. There is land can't done in Guyana too. These large places can well do with some immigration and relieve the over populated small islands.
    So you see Myron your perception is all wrong. It isn't that they are not wanted here. The tiny size of the island, the resources and infrastructure can not handle an overwhelming population.
  • Man on a mission (17/05/2015, 12:21) Like (3) Dislike (5) Reply
    The man on a mission to sell us to expats- including phillipinas
  • good man (17/05/2015, 12:34) Like (7) Dislike (2) Reply
    Myron is a courageous man--he means what he says--He will fight to make it happened. .He will face opposition, plenty of it, in his own party---don`t give up the fight Myron---REMEMBER THE WORDS OF BOB-MARLEY--IF YOUR LIFE IS JUST ABOUT YOU ITS USELESS- AND IF YOU CAN`T USE YOUR POWER AND INFLUENCE TO HELP THE POOR, THE SUFFERING AND THE VOICELESS-- ASK GOD TO TAKE IT.--YOU HAVE FAILED GOD, --I know you will try, and try hard.
  • NDP heckler (17/05/2015, 12:35) Like (3) Dislike (6) Reply
    It is MYRON'S fault why we wont be having no Basket Ball and Soft Ball this season. Please VOTE HIM OUT and replace him with a NEW MINISTER OF SPORTS. This is the first time in the history of these islands that this has happened.
  • Forbidden Truth (17/05/2015, 12:52) Like (10) Dislike (1) Reply
    According to Hon Walwyn at the time, “If a child is born on United States soil, that child immediately becomes an American citizen, with all the rights thereto appertaining".

    OK Walwyn. That is the law of the United States of America.
    When did the people who born in the BVI of BVI parents became British citizens Walwyn?
    Only just a few year sago. We used to be British SUBJECTS, Dependent Territory Citizen, Overseas Territory Citizen.
    The writers of the Territorial song were born here of expat parents, so if they have it in them to Penn such a song, what is this now about how people feel? Life is real. A lot of time some expat parents drill negativity in the heads of their born here children and some of those children grow with a bad attitude and look of the same country they were born in even when their parents are granted the Belonger Status. But be aware Mr.Walwyn, the issue need addressing but all of you all have dropped the all on this. Colonialism and other isms and skizms are still in place. Seize the time. Immigration and status will always be political. Be careful of the politics of immigration control.
    • @Forbidden Truth (19/05/2015, 14:29) Like (0) Dislike (0) Reply
      The writers of the Territorial Song were raised by parents who were also raised in the BVI and from very small children. Their parents went through the education system here. I went to school with them in fact. They know nothing about where they were born and only about the BVI. The writers were then raised as BVIslanders per se and not with another cultural influence in the back of their heads. That is perhaps the difference. BVI is all they know and were ever taught.
  • chad (17/05/2015, 12:53) Like (5) Dislike (6) Reply
    He must go to Antigua and run for a seat then tell them what to do. He should be thankful that he get his foot in the door. Let us see if he can go to Antigua and make noise. Too many loose cannons around.
  • oh really!! (17/05/2015, 13:00) Like (4) Dislike (8) Reply
    Why should the BVI embrace them? They have rights in the country of their parents birth, so why do the BVI have to treat them special. From Guyana to Anguilla reside in the BVI. England would never entertain that. Our own BVI Pastport in a sort while is going be processed in Mother England, that along should say something for those who can read between the lines. It ain't going happen.
  • @emptyhead (17/05/2015, 14:11) Like (3) Dislike (1) Reply
    Of course it would be "fancy talk" if you don't help re-elect him to carry out his vision !
  • Just saying (17/05/2015, 14:22) Like (4) Dislike (3) Reply
    Please be careful in what is been said expatriates don't listing to the noise it seems like you all don't read the news only when it comes to elections. It is clearly states the our pass ports have to be proses out side the terotory now so who laws is this. Our mother land is in decision making so that minister has he hand full with uk they are protecting what belongs to them
  • concern (17/05/2015, 15:37) Like (1) Dislike (0) Reply

    He only concern of taking over the VI that he is spitting out #$&t how he expect to change the law we have to respect the laws of the land we are govern by the UK children born after 1999are in title to a passport bald head.

  • ooooo (17/05/2015, 15:40) Like (8) Dislike (1) Reply
    this is all political stupidness....myron meets with the governor on a weekly basis to discuss matters, how come he don't bring up this type of stuff then? the governor represent the queen...myron is just trying to ponder votes because he knows that those who are in this situation will grab at it
    • question (17/05/2015, 20:31) Like (6) Dislike (2) Reply
      Why is he always upfront of everybody else on the party? Water bottle labelled with his name, just about every shirt you see on someone back is his, and the cards waving too. What is really going on here? Is he the one really pulling this party? If so what is Dr. Smith and Pickering role and seniors like Skelton, Archie, Delores? Or is he just making sure he does not get embarrassed by making sure he get reelected leaving the rest of them?
      • ooooo (18/05/2015, 01:32) Like (3) Dislike (0) Reply
        if you notice myron is all about himself..myron campaigns for myron..myron only cares about himself
  • Rasta Fari (17/05/2015, 17:26) Like (5) Dislike (4) Reply
    any law that man make--man can change--someone has to be courageous, Loving, and possessed A Godly heart--Black people (like you and I) couldn`t vote up to the 1960`s in America, that was the law and it changed...One Man makes a mistake another man fixed it. Where is all this hatred for innocent black kids like us coming from. why? Myron I respect you--You are doing the right thing--those others are just politicians, you are more than a politician. God call special people to do his work--Jah-- Rasta Fari.
  • king love (17/05/2015, 18:43) Like (2) Dislike (1) Reply
    It's an very important issue that needs to be discussed and address before those of the U.K who oppose the rights of a child born in the Virgin Islands and parents not from here. The U.K having giving no grounded information that refuse this act. These slave masters laws must be broken and will through the powers of Most High. We as a people must make a rightful stand for the rights and not the wrong.
  • joe biden (17/05/2015, 18:51) Like (16) Dislike (0) Reply
    My boss Obama needs to file a lawsuit to the NDP for stealing his O logo and TShirt design.
    • @joe biden (17/05/2015, 23:54) Like (5) Dislike (0) Reply
      I have always thought he tried a bit much in the House of Assembly to look like President Obama, even down to the way he folds his lips after making a point. The campaign t-shirts are the limit for me. What hubris!
    • rattie (18/05/2015, 00:04) Like (3) Dislike (0) Reply
      The latest funny man gimmick
  • east (17/05/2015, 21:13) Like (12) Dislike (1) Reply


  • Re (17/05/2015, 23:39) Like (0) Dislike (0) Reply
    So what does Bermuda do ?
  • Liat 521 (18/05/2015, 00:03) Like (4) Dislike (0) Reply
    Myron is so fony i cant wait for him to go
  • antigua (18/05/2015, 08:42) Like (3) Dislike (0) Reply
    He can sell that sh-- in Antigua where his parents from
  • Backbencher (18/05/2015, 12:19) Like (1) Dislike (0) Reply
    After 4 years you just thought of this wow imagine what your thoughts will be another 4 years from now you guys really take we for fools wow
  • Eagles & Buffalo (18/05/2015, 16:50) Like (2) Dislike (0) Reply
    Pure pandering for votes! Walwyn knows that the VI is a small (dot in the Caribbean Sea) OT under UK’s umbrella. He is an attorney at law and a legislator and knows the VI constitution. He also understands the applicability and reach of the British Nationality Act (BNA). He knows that you cannot compare the VI to the US.

    The U.S. is 3.8 million square miles; the VI is approximately 60 square miles spread among some 36 islands, islets and rocks. He knows that the UK does not have jus soli or automatic birthright citizenship. Since 2004 no European country grants unconditional birthright citizenship. Jus soli is observed by a minority of countries. Of major developed countries, only Canada and U.S. has it. Most countries have jus sanguinis or parental citizenship.

    Immigration/external workers was and is vital to VI growth and development. But as is the case in larger countries controlling the conferring some rights must be done in a planned and deliberate process. Birthright citizenship is not denied altogether, for it can be granted at 18 years. I can only pretend to understand the frustration of those affected and the interest of those with similar national origin.

    But we must put politics aside and pierce into the rationale and reason for the policy. The policy was intended for orderly political, economic and social growth and advancement. Large countries can accomodate jus soli seamlessly and minimal to no social disruption. And even so many do not. Any country cannot just plan for today; it has to also plan for tomorrow and the day after.

    Wonder why Walwyn having been in HOA for 3.5 years have not brought legislation to the floor to grant jus soli? Would it have something to fo with the BNA? Has he taken up the issue with the FCO? What is the NDP take on the issue? What is the other OTs doing? Walwyn know that the UK BNA 1981 and other amendments to serve their own interest just as he is pandering for his own interest. Stop the pandering for votes! The VI has plethora issues that candidates can campaign on.

    Let’s soar on the wings of eagles, not led off the cliff as buffalos
  • Ajic (20/05/2015, 20:45) Like (0) Dislike (0) Reply
    All this foolish talk from Walwyn is why the British Government is taking over the processing of BVI passports. A lot of people who gain these passport illegally through political favors will soon find out what time it is when they try to renew their passport

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