‘Where you born is where you from’- Julian Willock
The frank former Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Communications and Works and Chairman of the Board of Advance Marketing and Professional Services, Mr Julian Willock, made the suggestions during an interview on the International Morning Ride Show on ZROD 103.7 FM with host Paul A. Peart aka ‘Gadiethz’ on Monday April 24, 2017.
The topic was most recently explored by Education and Culture Minister Honourable Myron V. Walwyn (AL) at the Friday April 21, 2017 sitting of the House of Assembly. Hon Walwyn said the matter was a “terrible indictment” that needs to be addressed with a level of urgency.
Where you born is where you from
According to Mr Willock, Hon Walwyn needed to tell the truth on the issue of automatic citizenship by birth.
“I for one believes where you born is where you from. I am one of those who subscribe to that theory. But we must be honest in our argument, in our dialogue with people and stop trying to rant and rave and simply grant stand for political reasons,” Mr Willock pointed out.
“If you truly love children, you are now in power to do something about the so-called stateless children that you have described and you have not done anything about it. All you do is rant and rave and insulted your colleagues and all that “Cat got your tongue” and you are going to put a “spoke” in somebody’s wheels,” Mr Willock said in direct comments to Hon Walwyn.
The former Permanent Secretary and Businessman also pointed out that there are less than 30 countries that give automatic rights based on birth, including places such as the USA, Bolivia, Belize, Costa Rica, Trinidad and Tobago, St Vincent and the Grenadines and St Kitts and Nevis.
He noted, however, that there are more countries in the world that do not grant automatic citizenship to persons simply by being born in a country.
Suggestions
While noting that the British Nationality Act is a “challenge” for all the other British Overseas Territories Mr Willock said there are actions that can be undertaken right at home in the Virgin Islands (UK) to address the matter.
“So I am going to be looking forward to the next House of Assembly, whether you want to do it through a referendum, whether you want to do it through amending the local laws…we can do something right now to our local laws to address them.”
According to Mr Willock, children born in the VI to expats can be given automatic Belonger status but this does not necessarily mean they will be given a British passport.
Racist law
But the equally frank Radio Personality, Mr Peart, during his interview, felt that the laws were discriminatory and only for the poor people.
“Racism, racist law,” he insisted. “And our black brothers and sisters embrace the racist law of the British Empire in this 2017 time.”
He pointed out further to bring his point home that when people from Britain come to the territory with their families they are “well set up” and “our black brothers and sisters still standing in line.”
According to the country’s laws, if a child is born in the VI and the parents are not citizens or belongers they are required to apply in writing to the Immigration Department for permission for the child to reside. The immigration laws do not automatically give any rights for such persons born in the territory.
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133 Responses to “‘Where you born is where you from’- Julian Willock”
Of course not
I know that we Virgin Islanders use that derogatory term "down island people" and we indeed need to stop doing that...
But to say where you were born is where you're from is quite a stretch.
I could have been born in JAPAN! That doesn't make me Japanese...but how you guys want this system to run...I would be able to reap alllllll of the benefits of being Japanese and that IS NOT fair to their people.
If the BVI gives all these immigrants the SAME rights that people with lines and lines of Virgin Islands descendants , that wouldn't be fair to our people. A government's priority is supposed to be looking out for the interests of ITS people...and basically you're suggesting that we give all These people from god knows where rights to our country so they could exhaust OUR land and water, OUR educational opportunities, OUR jobs, OUR niche...
And when they jump up and say they're going back to their original countries already taking all they could get from ours, what are you going to say then???
Come on now
Do you think we can go live in their countries and act like we're their people. Hmmm
Come on now
We let you come and stay in our country and do your thing (work etc) ...now you want full blown rights ?? Wow
Letting you stay wasn't enough
But as the old people say...when you give an inch, they go for the yard ....so I didn't expect any less
No, plus you don't know me...so instead of trying to have something to say...understand what you're reading
Ignorance
Too many expatriates harbour ill feelings about the BVI but yet they choose to remain living outside the boundaries of good citizenry.
It is the same as you going to St Thomas for one day in the hospital to give birth and your child becomes a US Citizen but not you, you are stall a BVIlander.
Come on People the world is changing, please try to accept changes. The BVI will never be the same again as 20 years ago. we are developing in education and technology rapidly. Lets get away from things that is a reality and move on.
Remember though, education is the key to success. Ensure to educate yourself and have a place in this changing society amongst the children of the well educated expats or you will be working for one of them...
Be smart, be smart, be smart and put a stop to hate and Ignorance.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
Born at Peebles Hospital, so you speak what you do not know. If you ask me it is a dangerous thing to do
As land space is already an issue.
These children are being born and raised in the BVI it is where they call home - I can see the issue now if they were being born here an then going back to their native country. Stop it fellow BVIslanders, we are making our country look stupid with this law.
It's ok for us to go to St. Thomas, Puerto Rico and the mainland and have our children and return with a blue passport for them,. As an educator, for the record, I sometimes have to ask the children where they are from. I always find it so fascinating when some of them tell me they are from Puerto Rico yet they are failing Spanish. Can't speak a word of their native tongue. The longest some of them spent there is one week.
Yet these same people don't want my child who was born at Peebles, grow up here, go to school here, represent the country, don't know anther home, speak tolian to get a passport from here. Plain selfishness and that is one of the reasons there is a serious lack of patriotism here and we complain. How do you expect the children to feel when you treat them like that?
What they need to implement, which has been the only suggestion I see working and appeasing staunch anchor-baby haters is give the children resident status while enrolled in school. So yes apply for the child to reside and if you're still in the territory when the child is ready to attend school, you can apply for residence status. Not sure if they have residence cards or not, but they need to look into that.
Tortolians do go to the USA to get status. That doesn't make it right.
Yes people do take advantage of certain opportunities, and this is what you immigrants are trying to do/create here. It doesn't make it right though.
And before our country gets to a point that it allows every and anybody to get rights (like America does) , I will stand against that. You're comparing your situation to what Tortolians do...but look what America is going through..do you really want that to become the BVI's reality ??hm
Why do you think Trump wants to stop that. The ideal situation is not to accept immigrants and allow them to become our own ...else, what will stop the others from coming??
And in no time...all of our resources will depreciation EXTENSIVELY.
The BVI needs to be for the BVI...not Jamaica, Guyana, Dominican Republic and the others. And don't get what I'm saying twisted, we accept you all with open arms ...but the end of the day...WE have to look out for our best interests ...
Because when things get bad, you all can up and leave and we have to stay.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT AND MY PROBLEM
Some of you immigrants came here, got your rights and now basically you all can determine the fate of the country...
One problem ..IT ISNT YOURS
This isn't your country...your voice shouldn't be bigger than a local's ....and when you all get rights at birth , this is going to be exactly the case. You guys are going to out number us in elections and all of that which isn't fair BECAUSE YOURE NOT FROM HERE.
As I said, if I was born in Japan...I'm not Japanese . My history is here in the very roots of this country...yours is elsewhere
Hence, we all know that ALLLLL immigrants loyalty is not with the county.
For example, I'll refer to a video that was circulating in recent months . A female police officer was confronting a local scooter rider. He maybe said something about her being from 'down island ' or whatever ....and the policewoman said and I quote
"I gladdddd I'm not from here"
Very bold
You see the problem now? We're letting y'all in and some aren't even thankful that we have them a better life...that they could send their remittances back home to their poor countries...they don't even have Virgin Islands pride!
So why should you have rights here.
Our country must be a big fat mumu for that
I am really sick of this $*it now. Here is the link to the British Nationality Act 1981:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
Please, Please! all of you arm chair experts give it a read. Section 36 and schedule 2 have provision for grant of citizenship for persons who otherwise would be stateless.
As noted by Mr Willock the number of countries that DO NOT grant automatic citizenship by birth far outnumber the ones that do. The rules of a country are its rules. You do not have the right to come and make your own!
This is a matter for the British Parliament please stop with all of the BVI bashing and read your $h*t before chatting crap in the comments section. Please people edify yourself!
"We don't run no other place looking citizenship, but they running here and want to tell us how to run our country".
Is this factual? BVI Islanders have for years traveled to St Thomas, Puerto Rico and the US mainland to give birth to their children? If that is not looking citizenship well please tell me what is.
Anchor babys but urs was born in the USA don't he are she is an American damn it man pls stop this
that persons are operating without reason
British Nationality Act 1981 Baby! Read it!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
The BVI must protect its people, and that's the whole crux of the matter. Open season will not happen here.
I believe the purpose of the law in the first instance was to prevent people from coming to the UK and its overseas Territories just to make children to get a passport. This is something that the US allows but the UK chose to prevent. Well why not at least try for a compromise where children born of expatriate parents can only become immediate citizens if their parents were living here 3 years or more.
Children do not choose where they to born. It is unfair to punish them simply because of their parent's choice. I find the UK and these countries that support such a law are hypocritical and may well be infringing on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that provides a general right to nationality under article 15. Imagine if the parent's countries decide not to issue the child a passport? So you have a passportless/stateless child.
What amazes me is that if one of these children who we have left stateless at birth become famous whether by athletic, musical, academic or other means whether we all of a sudden recognize that they are one of our own? I remember well how the BVI was jumping and shouting how Melanie Amaro was one of theirs. Talk that.
Children without identity, what a shame. How can anyone support this moral injustice?
On another note for those who say that persons who have worked and toiled to help build this country for 10-20 years do not have a right to an equal say or a right to nationality in their adoptive country? Something is not right about that line of thought.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
Section 36 provisions to prevent statelessness
otherwise Mamma UK and Lizzy Regina say no automatic passport.
MAY I GO ON
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
Acquisition after commencement
1.-(1) A person born in the United Kingdom after com- Acquisition
mencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth by birth or
his father or mother is- adoption.
(a) a British citizen ; or
(b) settled in the United Kingdom.
(2) A new-born infant who, after commencement, is found
abandoned in the United Kingdom shall, unless the contrary
is shown, be deemed for the purposes of subsection (1)- ,
(a) to have been born in the United Kingdom after commencement
; and
(b) to have been born to a parent who at the time of
the birth was a British citizen or settled in the United
Kingdom.
2 c. 61 British Nationality Act 1981
PART I (3) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement
who is not a British citizen by virtue of subsection (1)
or (2) shall be entitled to be registered as a British citizen if,
while he is a minor-
(a) his father or mother becomes a British citizen or becomes
settled in the United Kingdom ; and
(b) an application is made for his registration as a British
citizen.
(4) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement
who is not a British citizen by virtue of subsection (1) or
(2) shall be entitled, on an application for his registration as a
British citizen made at any time after he has attained the age of
ten years, to be registered as such a citizen if, as regards each of
the first ten years of that person's life, the number of days on
which he was absent from the United Kingdom in that year does
not exceed 90.
(5) Where after commencement an order authorising the
adoption of a minor who is not a British citizen is made by any
court in the United Kingdom, he shall be a British citizen as
from the date on which the order is made if the adopter or, in
the case of a joint adoption, one of the adopters is a British
citizen on that date.
(6) Where an order in consequence of which any person
became a British citizen by virtue of subsection (5) ceases to have
effect, whether on annulment or otherwise, the cesser shall not
affect the status of that person as a British citizen.
(7) If in the special circumstances of any particular case the
Secretary of State thinks fit, he may for the purposes of subsection
(4) treat the person to whom the application relates as fulfilling
the requirement specified in that subsection although, as
regards any one or more of the first ten years of that person's life,
the number of days on which he was absent from the United
Kingdom in that year or each of the years in question exceeds
90.
(8) In this section and elsewhere in this Act " settled " has
the meaning given by section 50.
Acquisition 2.-(1) A person born outside the United Kingdom after comby
descent. mencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth
his father or mother-
(a) is a British citizen otherwise than by descent ; or
(b) is a British citizen and is serving outside the United
Kingdom in service to which this paragraph applies,
his or her recruitment for that service having taken
place in the United Kingdom ; or
Let's say these very same kid/s become Olympic worthy or excel in any other area in their lives, only then are they recognized. They become hero/es. They become ambassador/s to the territory. I wrote all this to say to treat our children fairly because we never know who they are in the making. A nobel laureate, an Olympic champion, a Grammy award artiste, an internationally recognized doctor,etc.
#one love
A child born in STT cannot get a birth certificate from Tortola
If you are born in Puerto Rico and cannot speak Spanish you are still Puerto-Rician because they got your birth rights in their registry. lol
Just so you can understand where you are from.
Is this simple enough???
A birth certificate doesn't give you rights in a country.... I am pretty sure the children who are complaining about not having status have their Virgin Islands issued birth certificate. Seriously, you can't be that slow.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/pdfs/ukpga_19810061_en.pdf
much difficulty.
Now a child who was born and raised here has to wait 18? There's nothing wrong with the system? You tell me and talk that.
Doesn't the Christmas story teach that Mary and Joseph had to travel to Bethlehem because there was a census and Joseph's ancestors were not from Nazareth but from Bethlehem? Regardless of where Joseph was born he still had to go where his family was from, pregnant wife and all. You aren't from where you were born but from where your parents are citizens.
Baldhead and all the others are just playing dirty politics. They know the constitution and they know fully well that this law they keep debating isn't even a VI law but a British law. We didn't write it but we have to follow it. Why? Because as much leeway as we get, we're still British and counted in the UK and in UK laws, you can only be born British if born to British parents. This is why children born to VIslanders outside the VI can still be British (and a VIslander) but children born to non-VIslanders in the VI cannot.
This whole debacle makes me wonder; why are there so many leaders and popular figures who won't stand for the VI and continuously bad talk the country and the people? They won't stand for us and defend our reputation when we get called a tax haven and money launders (despite the fact that we jump through every single hoop every time). They won't stand up for us when the UN is always accusing us of human rights violations despite the fact that the shinning pillar of a country in which the UN's base still has the death penalty (which is against human rights). Why are we letting international bodies telling us how to be when they are a bunch of hypocrites?
Go read the wiki page for the VI in regards to citizenship, we aren't the the only ones with citizenship laws like ours yet still we get thrown under the bus like VIslanders are just hateful and xenophobic. Why are our leaders allowing for our image to be besmirched like this?
These leaders continuously look down on the people of the VI like everything we've ever done was wrong and we only got to where we are by luck. They look down on VIsladers like we're all a bunch of $#!+ throwing troglodytes who need to be dragged into the modern time. They stand up and tell us we should have national pride while celebrating the diversity of everyone and talk about honouring our forefathers when our leaders spit on the teachings they left us. They have shallow roots and blow wherever the moral wind takes them. They don't care about anything and will stomp on expats just like how they stomp on VIslanders now when they get whatever it is they are after.
I sympathise with the children of expats because of regardless of their parents actions, they are innocent in all this but my sympathy can only go so far. Regardless of the innocence of the children, their parents are not. Expats make up a large percent of the VI and they have helped the VI a lot but even then... expats do you not know you are still a guest here? Whether you've been here 10 hours or 10 years if you aren't a citizen or resident you won't have the same rights as such and you should adjust your behaviour so accordingly. You are all adults and shouldn't have to be lectured. You know your children can't be VIslanders and if you don't know why maybe the visa process should include a test (like Australia). Why don't you actually plan your paregnancies and make arrangements so your child won't be stateless. This is as much an individual problem as it is a legal problem. If the argument is you've been here long enough to be granted rights then take the initiative apply for nationality (it's not automatically given anywhere, you have to apply for it and take a citizenship test).
This is what happens when you have a country where the indigenous people are the minority and the vision is lost. You get a vocal and frustrated majority that either don't know or don't respect the laws and traditions, a silenced and frustrated minority that can't truly rein the population (both sides that think each are entitled and can't see eye to eye) and a bunch of spineless, people-pleasing, cannibalising leaders who act like the fatest rats on a sinking ship.
1) Irony
2) Hypocrisy
There is only one thing this will lead to in the end:
Calamity
I don't see why the parents are still here in the first place. Isn't there time limits as to how long you can stay in another man's country? Instead of the minister of education defending our constitution, he is fighting for those who are here illegally. But he did say he can no longer protect the people. Walwyn is just another member of the Trojan horse that is here to destroy the Virgin Islands. The UN cannot force a country to accept illegal aliens just because they like the VI better than their own country.